Grouse shooting advice, description & resources

Red Grouse (Lagopus lagopus scoticus)  is a sub species of the willow grouse found in America and Eurasia. First, a little biology........ The hen lays eggs around late April to the end of May. Incubation takes just over 3 weeks so a lot of chicks are around in the first couple of weeks of June. If there is a good stock of over wintering breeding birds, then the weather in June is probably the most critical in determining the harvestable surplus of birds available when the season opens on August the 12th. The young  chicks need plenty of insects to feed on, so warm weather with the occasional shower (moisture for the breeding insects) is probably the best weather in June and July. Too much or too little, and the stocks decline.

Grouse cannot be reared to maturity and therefore the birds are truly wild. Keepers make an estimate of the spring population in April to check the breeding population. If breeding density looks OK, then any shooting dates reserved continue to be   kept provisional until the main  count.  Birds are counted around mid July- late July by which time the majority of young birds are flying moderately well. If there are low numbers of birds , then the estate may cancel all or some of the days reserved for shooting to ensure there are plenty of birds available for the following season. Grouse can be difficult to count precisely and even more difficult to assess for condition. The best moorland keepers are by nature extremely cautious and it's not by accident that if you press a keeper, an estate or a sporting agent for a precise prediction of quantity and quality of sport for the date you have booked, you will be told that your answer will be given at the end of your shooting day! We can only give you our best estimate for prospects - no more! After all, that is part of the allure of this quarry - its unpredictability in a wild and untameable landscape.

I am frequently told (complained about)  the high cost of grouse shooting, so a word or two regarding this will hopefully explain. The main season lasts 6 weeks during which time the estate has to recover the cost of paying all the keepers for the remaining 10 1/2 months and the annual capital cost of the ground itself as well as the other fixed overheads. In general, once every four years or so, there may be no shooting (and therefore no income at all) due to low stocks of birds. Now, if you had to run an enterprise on that basis - would you charge less than the estates?!        

There are 3 main types of grouse shooting:

1.Driven grouse   2.Walked up grouse  3. Grouse over pointers

Driven Grouse - teams of 8-10 people shoot from grouse butts. Most driven grouse days in Scotland would be for 50 to 60 brace of grouse to be shot for the whole team each day, but sometimes days of 100 or 120 brace may be available. This is formal shooting and at the start of the day, guns draw numbers in the line and they move up 2 or 3 numbers after each drive so that their position in the line will change throughout the day. There may be anything between 4 and 8 drives during the day and walking is usually limited, so you don't have to be super fit. The sport is fast and furious in stunning scenery and is one of the few forms of shooting in the UK which is unique.

Grouse seldom fly high - they flush in front of the line of beaters which may be walking in line for a mile or three in front of the line of guns waiting in the stone or heather-built butts. The birds use the contours of the hill, flying along and dropping off the side of the hill to maintain speed. Guns should try to take birds well out in front - waiting until they are really close is a big mistake as the coveys pass so quickly that there would be no time to turn and try to take the second behind the butts. 12 or 20 gauge shotguns are usually used with UK shot size 7 being the norm.

Driven grouse costs anything between £150 and £180 per brace. So one gun in a team of 10 shooting a 60 brace day may be paying in the region of £950 for the day's sport. 

Walked up grouse

A line of 4 to 8 guns (6 being probably the best number) walk in line and flush the birds themselves as they walk along. The  dogs accompanying the line would be primarily for retrieving shot birds, but spaniels and Labradors which work the line fairly close to the guns can be extremely useful especially if the weather is hot when birds may sit very tight and be reluctant to flush. On hot days, it's often a useful tactic to walk very slowly and stop every now and then - the grouse often flush when the line stops because they cannot tell where the guns are.

Windy, cool, blustery  days are not good for walked up grouse - the birds will rise well out in front of the guns, often out of range. You need to be particularly fit for this kind of sport and this is where the lighter 20 or 16 gauge shotgun is a real advantage. This is probably the most difficult form of walked up shooting because you get little warning when birds flush and within a couple of seconds, they have covered 10 metres or more. It's sod's law, that the most prolific flushes will be when you are just crossing a ditch or looking away in the wrong direction at that Eagle flying across the Glen!

One fault I find quite common with guns new to grouse shooting is that range estimation is often inaccurate. Also, grouse cannot carry much shot and clean kills can be made at ranges much greater than for say, pheasants and pigeons. Grouse can be killed cleanly at 35 yards and I have watched an experienced gun kill grouse consistently (with a 20 gauge) at ranges of at least 40 yards (something that's fantastic to see). It's a good idea when walking to guess 30 or 35 long steps to that next stone or burn so you are more familiar with range on an otherwise featureless heather moor. When the next covey bursts from the heather, you will have a better idea estimating if they are within shot by the time you mount your gun.

Travel light for this kind of shooting - cartridges, water , camera , lunch and a spare sweater.

Walked up grouse costs around £800-£1,000 per day for a group of 4 to 8 guns for 10-15 brace of grouse.

Grouse over Pointers

Any of the 3 breeds of Setters or English Pointers are used for this kind of shooting. There is an increasing use of the Hunt Point Retrieve breeds such as the German Short Haired or Wire Haired Pointer, and this is also often called shooting over pointers, despite not being truly correct.

The action of the HPR dogs is quite different (they usually range shorter and work a little slower) and are better suited to working heavy cover. To see the real pinnacle of Pointer work, you should be on one of the moors in the far North of Scotland or on other lightly stocked moors elsewhere. At this point, I should mention that there has been a fashion for running pointers on heavily stocked moors - this does the sport no service and often spoils the dogs. There is nothing clever about shooting 30 brace of grouse (or more) in one day over pointers to 2 or 3 guns . It's a fine sight to watch a pointer quartering 4 or 5 hundred metres to either side of the guns and then suddenly to lock on point and stay there for the 10 minutes or so for the 2 guns to walk up to the dog before flushing the birds. As a rule of thumb - I would say that if  7- 10 brace can be shot over pointers, that's a good day - if it's possible to shoot more than 15 brace in a day, the moor should be walked up and if more  than 30 brace can be shot by a walked up group (no pointers), then that moor should be driven.

For pointer shooting, a group of 2 to 4 guns walk together with guns broken behind the quartering dogs. If a bird has been missed by the dog (this should seldom happen), then no one shoots at it - only birds being pointed are shot at. When the dog goes on point, the handler will walk up to the side of the dog and two guns only walk up to 10 metres or so on either side of the dog . The dog will press forward on instructions by the handler and should drop to the flush of birds. At this point, only the two guns at either side of the dog will shoot. A retrieving dog such as a Labrador or spaniel (not the pointer) will then go in to collect the bird. 

Very often, there will be two pairs of pointers or setters out with the party. The pairs of dogs are changed every 20-30 minutes to rest the working pair.

You need to be equally fit for this kind of shooting and as for walked up grouse, travel light. This form of shooting is better than walked up grouse for novice grouse shooters and is easier shooting because the dog warns you when it has found grouse.

Grouse over pointers costs around £850 to £1,000 per day for a group of guns looking to shoot around 10 brace of birds in a day. The cost per gun is higher than walked up grouse because in addition to the keeper with his retrieving dogs, there will be a pointer handler plus 2 to 4 pointing dogs, there may also be a 'dog boy' or 'dog girl' who walks with spare team of  dogs. 

Roe Buck Hunting            Back to Reference Index      

For the best times to hunt Roe Bucks, follow this link to the Best Times page.

Most Roebuck hunting is done on foot, by walking slowly and silently against or across the wind. It's not easy to generalise, but many guides will walk in the mornings and place the hunter in a high seat or on a vantage point  in the evenings. Most guides in the UK have an aversion to sitting in high seats for any lengths of time and this is the appeal to many overseas hunters who come to hunt here. For this reason, it is important that hunters have practised taking shots whilst standing and also shooting off a stick. You should be able to shoot to a 10 cm circle at 100 metres whilst using a stick. You cannot always count on being able to lean against a stout tree. Bringing a long stick with you is not always easy, so make sure you ask the guide to supply you with one when you arrive. The stick should be at least long enough to be level with your eye when standing straight. The stick is also useful for glassing areas for long periods of time and keeping the binoculars steady when the weather is windy.

Continental hunters often assume we have a lower density of Roe Deer in the UK than compared with say, Poland and Germany. Of  course, it's dangerous to generalise, but we do not have such vast areas of flat land and huge open areas of fields bounded by heavy cover or woods which is so often found in Central Europe. The consequence is that large numbers of Roe are seldom viewable at one time from one viewing position. Our grounds are more hilly and undulating, so it's seldom possible to see the many Roe living in that area in the course of a few outings. The quality of Roe compares well with anywhere else in Europe, with substantial numbers of medal heads being shot. Many areas of the UK have a very high density of Roe deer. Allowing for weather, it's reasonable to expect that 1 hunter with a guide on a 1:1 basis can shoot 4 to 6 bucks (of 4 points or more) in 5 days - on a 2:1 basis where two hunters share a guide with one sitting in a high seat and one walking with the guide, 3-4 bucks per hunter (of 4 points or more) is a reasonable expectation. Every year I receive crazy requests from hunters each asking to shoot 5 or 6 Medal Head bucks in a week - there is nowhere in Europe that I know this can done regularly on a fair chase basis. If hunters only want to shoot medal head bucks, then it may be possible on suitable grounds to shoot 2 or 3 in a week if the weather, wind and time of year is right.  

The best quality heads are to be found in the East and Central parts of the UK, where there is  lower rainfall. Roe in the West of Scotland, the far North of Scotland and on high ground will provide superb and exciting hunting , often in dramatic scenery, but don't expect medal quality heads!

When you are planning your hunting trip to the UK, you should check carefully with the estate or agency and ask them what exactly qualifies as a buck which is chargeable. In most areas for example, the Forestry Commission counts all males, of all ages, as bucks - so it's hardly surprising that they may be able to say that shooting 8 to 12 bucks in 5 days is quite possible. This is why the expectation varies so much from one estate to another. Do not be afraid to ask for past bag records. If you receive an evasive answer, then beware. Asking for references is sometime a good idea, but many estates and agencies do not operate any system of asking past clients for references. Many of my clients never return their post- free, pre addressed reply form after a successful hunt - perhaps they want to keep the secret as they still book to return to the same estates! 

Prices vary a huge amount from one area to another. For stalking in areas where the bucks are not particularly heavy, then 5 days stalking on a 1:1 basis may cost around £900 which includes trophy fees. Stalking 2:1 by sharing a guide, may cost £750 to £800. In areas where the bucks are heavier (more than 350 gm.) , then a sliding scale operates for these heavier bucks which maybe medal category and you need to allow an extra £400 to £700 to pay for the trophy fees.

Pigeon Shooting                                           Back to Reference Index   

There are three main forms of pigeon shooting - over decoys, on flight lines and roost shooting. For some reason, too many folk assume that there must be decoys out for pigeon shooting and that's a big mistake. Some of the best and most demanding shooting can be on flight lines. Our woodpigeon, (Columba palumbus) has acute eyesight and is a strong flier, and so makes demands on your  fieldcraft as well as shooting accuracy - often made  in a sitting position .  

There is no close season for pigeon shooting, but the best time is when the birds are feeding in flocks and their food source is more restricted. This makes February to early April a good time and also at harvest time which is late July to the end of August.

It's normally always best to shoot pigeons as part of a group of people. Each person will be positioned on their own over quite a large area and you will seldom have a guide with you. The reason for this is to keep the birds moving from one location to another and therefore increase the amount of shooting for each person . The guide spends most of his day driving around the country lanes checking for any new groups of birds feeding so that he can move the hunter who is quiet to a different location. ( A conscientious guide may drive up to 70 - 100 miles in a day checking areas and moving people). The guide will watch the shooters with binoculars and if he sees or hears you shooting steadily, then he won't come near you! I would emphasise, that for all forms of pigeon shooting, you will need patience. If sport slows down and you decide to walk about or move your position, it is sod's law that the birds decide to resume activity, but spot your movements from afar and fly off elsewhere!

For all pigeon shooting, a hat to shade the face is essential and many folk also wear gloves to shield the white of the hands. It's a good idea to have a shooting stick or a green or camouflage waterproof sheet  with you, so that if a seat is not available or handy, then you have something to sit on behind the blind. 

Decoy shooting: Your guide will place you in a hide and set out a number of decoy birds - the idea being that the pigeons will land  into the pattern of birds, landing against the wind.  The pattern is such that the birds should be landing around 25 yards in front of you. You will need to stay hidden until the bird is in range, if it is clear that the bird is going to land, wait until it sets its wings - too many pigeons are missed because an over eager hunter jumps up and blazes away at a bird too soon before it slows up to land or as it flies over the decoys to check them out and turns again to land . Watch out for birds landing in a nearby tree and sitting there for a while as they check out the decoys from a safe distance - any movement from you and they will not come in. Do not leave dead birds lying up side down or on their sides in the decoy pattern. If the birds are really coming in hard, then you will find you will only have to pick up dead birds now and again. If they are nervous, then collect the shot birds and add a few dead birds to the pattern by propping them upright and placing a short 'V' shaped twig under their chins to make them look realistic.

Flight lines: As before, you may need to shoot from a hide. You will be shooting at passing birds which are within range. Birds on their way to a feeding area often use fairly fixed routes but may change their line of flight slightly after a period of time, so you need to be prepared to shift your position if required. Pigeons in some parts of the UK are becoming so educated (especially in the spring, when all the birds may have experienced being shot at during the previous year's harvest) , that a guide may put decoys out 2 or 3 fields away and rather than place the hunter over the decoys, he is positioned on the flight line to these decoys.

Roost shooting: This is really just a variation of flight line shooting. As the light fails, the birds return to their roosting woods. You are more likely to have to keep shifting your position when roost shooting, so it is seldom worthwhile putting up a hide and in any event, the flight may only last a short time. Try to position yourself with a tree or hedge behind you so that you can merge with the background.

Some more general points: UK shot size no. 6 is preferred by most pigeon shots. Pigeons are quite tough and need to be hard hit so guns which are lightly choked are OK for shooting over decoys, but may be too open for shooting the higher birds on flightlines. The best weather for pigeon shooting is when the day is windy and dry.

Expectations. So much depends on your ability as a shot! Everyone has read or heard about single guns shooting more than 100 birds in a day, but conditions have to be absolutely right for this. Various books and magazine articles boast of huge bags, but the author may omit to mention that he does not fire a shot for several days until a feeding flock has built up to a large size - remember, that if you have booked a pigeon shooting holiday, you do not have such a luxury and just have to take the chance that you may be in the right place at the right time for that 'red letter day'.  A general average of 20-45 birds shot per day per gun is more typical. I usually find that during 4 days of shooting, two days will be average, one day will be poor and one day will be really good.

Pigeon shooting, like rabbit shooting is the cheapest form of hunting in the UK. Expect to pay a daily rate of around £240 to £300 for a group of up to 4 people (in other words, £60-£75 per gun) .

Trophy Preparation (Deer)                                 Back to Reference Index

The vast majority of hunters coming to the UK have their deer trophies prepared by the guides. You pay a small fee for this which varies from £10 to £20 per trophy. The head is skinned and then cut either 'short nose' or 'long nose' and is then boiled and cleaned. Once any soft tissue has been removed, the skull with the antlers attached can be allowed to dry out without going foul. If you are not sure what a long & short nose cuts look like, please click on the following links to see pictures of them. [Long nose Red Stag]    [Short nose Red Stag]   [Long Nose Roe Buck]  . Because all the soft tissue has been removed, you should be able to return with your trophies back home and pass through customs control with no problems. Red Stag trophies are more of a handful if you are flying back home. The estate will help of course  with packing the heads, but it's a good idea to bring some extra tape of your own and some paper. Some lengths of garden hosepipe are also handy because you can cut them into short lengths and jam them over some of the antler tips to protect them . Thorough wrapping of the skull itself, leaving the antlers exposed but with the tips protected should be sufficient for them to go as hold luggage on the airline.   Further cleaning and bleaching of the head will probably be necessary when you are back home.  It's a different story if you have fur or feather which has not been preserved however. Salting the skin may not be enough. Regulations for importing game in the skin or parts of game in the skin (such as a caped deer) vary from country to country and often change over time . The only way to be certain is to let the specialist deal with this - and this is the taxidermist based in the UK. I recommend one particular taxidermist - click here to go to the page.  Long before you plan to come to the UK, contact the taxidermist who will explain his services and shipping costs.  Some guides will do a competent job at caping out a deer - however, never assume this as most hunters in the UK and Europe seldom have many deer set up due mainly to the high cost. This means that many guides will not have the experience and for sure - seldom have the time. After a hard day on the hill, there are numerous chores for the guide to attend to and he may only have a short time available for what can be a careful and un hurried operation. Best to assume that you will cape it yourself - that way it will be done the way you want it and any mistakes will be yours alone!

The taxidermist will arrange to collect the skin and head from the estate where you are hunting and the next time you see it is when it is shipped out to you. When flying, don't try and take your trophy home as cabin baggage - check them into the hold (properly packed). The antlers are regarded as a dangerous weapon - I have not heard of anyone holding up a bank or an aeroplane with a deer trophy , but there are many strange rules to which hunters have to comply and this is just one of them.